Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. If I'm running something with a long delta-wing layout, I'll then use canards and have the dynamic instability to allow for manouvering; if it's something without a lot of pitch inertia, I'll go tail stabilizer. 3. My question is really about controllability. Pasted as rich text. Guest, On the other hand, atmospheric craft are superb for exploring it for the very same reason you can scout for the perfect spot for your base, then land precisely there. You want an elevon on each set of wings. Intakes are your friend when you use liquid fuel. The BAK Karmilla. Getting all of this into one craft is a pretty intricate business, however. Build yourself a plane. As such, you will need various control surfaces. What version is the Kerbal Space Program demo? Starting from something with MK3 hull without experience in MK1 will be an uphill battle. Air-breathing hoverjetsneedintakes. The CoM (Center of Mass) is a yellow ball on your spacecraft when you enable it in the SPH. KSP should be handing out engineering degrees :). 4. But it flies horribly, it's all over the place even with SAS on it doesn't fly even remotely stable. Kerbal Space Program, how do you disable autosave? i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. It may be too far forward, especially if the tail is too small relative to the plane's wings. Why did DOS-based Windows require HIMEM.SYS to boot? We're also not discussing helicopters here, because stock kerbals have not invented the propeller, and stock propellers are a whole big topic of their own. A V/STOL atmospheric craft built for Duna can drop you on any dime, anywhere on the surface. Hi @Brikoleur, nice work! Move them back and fill them with fuel or weigh them down with control surfaces. The fastest known plane demonstrated, in version 0.23, a top speed of about 2377 m/s relative to Kerbin's surface just short of Mach 7. ps. I only very recently got into planes. [Stock] Brikoleur's Guide to VTOL Aircraft, fuel and trying to add more fuel means you need. I haven't found a sure-fire solution to this, but I think I know what causes it. Now to try it on one of those high altitude missions. Throttle up to full, activate SAS, stage to start the engine (you'll only have one stage here), and start rolling (or sliding) down the runway! You can either go with four "LY-O1 Fixed" or a tricycle of two LY-01 near the back and one "LY-05 Steerable" at the front; either is fine for now. Nah, the stabilizer will do it. and i usually find having my dampening a little lower then the spring strength keeps the wheels from "biting". Ill link it if interested. Intriguingly, there is one thing I've found that does prevent the wobble from starting, and that is to use a single engine mounted directly on the back of the fuselage, which prevents using a tail and is ultimately a fairly significant restriction to build around. You need about 150 m/s for the landing, less than that for take-off. When your airspeed is near zero and you're above your landing spot, reduce throttle until you start descending. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Are there any canonical examples of the Prime Directive being broken that aren't shown on screen? Also there it's important to place small landing gear after setting up CoL to CoM relation since it's mass is calculated in CoM in SPH/VAB but not counted in flight. So if you're getting those flame-outs, add more intakes until you don't get them anymore. To land a VTOL aircraft, approach the landing zone as you would with a regular HTOL craft, until on final approach. 4. You should talk about the rocket engine's dV (approx., since not all users use Mechjeb or any other mod capable of showing dV for a given engine and tank). Two MacBook Pro with same model number (A1286) but different year. Display as a link instead, This should reduce ground control authority and make oscillations less powerful. You will need more jets at the nose and tail than on the wingtips, as there will be more forces on pitch when transitioning to or from level flight. How to force Unity Editor/TestRunner to run at full speed when in background? But mostly, the answer is still "because they're fun and educational and you can.". Eventually you either crash, or you reach a high enough speed that SAS wiggling can't cause a significant enough difference in engine speeds. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Unexpected uint64 behaviour 0xFFFF'FFFF'FFFF'FFFF - 1 = 0? These tend to handle . This one is balanced with reaction wheels. Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. one last thing to verify: look from the side, observe where your center of mass is, then how the control surfaces are located relative to it and if the way they react to your controls makes sense (just try to pull up, down, or roll, on the runway without even starting the engine or disengaging brakes and watch which way the control surfaces move). All three wheels (one steerable in front, two fixed in back) are mounted with angle snapping, symmetrically, Wheels are mounted to the fuselage, rather than to the wings (which flex under load), Center of lift is behind center of mass, and slightly raised, Rear wheels are in front of tail, but not enough to make tail strikes easy. front, then it automatically disbalances the weight moving the weight to the back. Please help, This is an okay guide but it does not go into the nuts and bolts of the deal.like what exactly do all of these wing parts do? They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. These tend to handle best. Always look at your aircraft from a 90* angle on the side. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. At low speeds, this difference can be significant. (However, it must be noted that it is bad practice to use ailerons as elevators since it makes it hard to control the aircraft), The rudder moves the tip of the plane left and right; it is rarely used, since it is hard to put it both up and down due to the possibility of hitting the ground. The second one is likely to be aerodynamics if you just stick on some downward-pointing jets, you will find that they produce a lot of drag, which is going to be really inefficient. Your main lift, though, should always be as closely centered on your CoM as you can manage. Your CoT vector will disappear. Finally, it is really difficult to land a HTOL atmospheric craft on Duna because of the thin air: you'll be going really fast and terrain is really bumpy, so there's a huge risk of ending up as a big ball of fire, whereas it's very hard to land a conventional rocket lander precisely,like when you're aiming for your surface base. This can be most helpful when transitioning to or from level flight. If it starts tipping in one direction, you're really likely to flip over and crash dramatically, like a tree falling over. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Congratulations! In the crash log, it says that at 00:00:00 there is "Lift-Off!" on the same axis as engines. I might try to write a more advanced guide for spaceplane construction. Pasted as rich text. Some more advanced tips you can use in the guide: In stock (no FAR) game to have a stable plane its also important to place control surfaces behind the wings, since their lift increases faster with AoA. Rockets are much less efficient than air-breathers, so it needs to be much bigger than a Kerbin-bound craft performing the same mission! I haven't encountered oscillations like that in an airplane but I have encountered them aplenty in case of lightweight probes that have too strong control authority - too good RCS or reaction wheels, so I suspect the source here is the same. People put waaaaaaaaay too many control surfaces on things from a lot of the screenshots I see. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Before building planes though, there are some inportant things to know. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. Go ahead and make a new save file or use an old one, it doesn't matter! Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Clear editor. You arent doing anything wrong. Roll is the main way to change direction in flight, and best way to crash the plane on the ground. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. SAS sees this and turns the other way, which just causes the same problem in the other direction. You too!Like - Subscribe - Check out my other tutorials. The more intakes added, the higher a plane can go before a flame-out, which makes multiple intakes a must on SSTO spaceplanes. I have some really good tips and tricks to add to your tutorial,but Im on my phone at the moment. Also: high proportion of lifting surfaces to non-lifting surfaces. Paste as plain text instead, You need enough intakes to keep them fed. I've found that all my runway wiggling planes are caused by the wheels. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. 3. So, if you're having this problem then. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. You want those tires facing straight to the ground! Because of that if you for example place control surfaces at the front you can make a plane that has CoL behind CoM (like in the picture) unstable because CoL will drift forward past CoM as AoA increases (contrary to your 4th point). When off the ground at a sufficient altitude to clear obstacles, main jets ON, When at sufficient speed for aerodynamic flight, hoverjets OFF, pods CLOSED, gear UP. You want to start by attaching a Mk 0 Liquid Fuel Tank under the wings, making sure you're mirrored so it goes under both wings. Hovering is expensive but you don't really need all that many seconds of hover either for take-off or for landing. Then you want to put something called a "Small Circular Intake" on the front of the tank, and a "J-20 Juno" engine on the back of the tank. For your first flight, it may be easiest to ignore yaw altogether and just maneuver by rolling slightly and pitching. I actually like canard layouts, but I'm going to endorse this post because it's a simple, easy way to do it. Cookie Notice Additionally if you have any off-center fuel tanks, double check the fuel is drawn from both at the same rate (same priority). Control surfaces are your friend. The procedure for a vertical take-off is as follows: The procedure for a short take-off is the same, except that forward jets and hoverjets will both be ON from the start. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? On the other hand, something with a wide wingspan but narrow wings (like the connector Cs) will pitch easily but need more oomph to roll. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. They're obviously bigger and less efficient than conventional landers again because of the extra engines you're hauling; the advantage is being able to land them exactly where you want, while having the capability to explore the planet with atmospheric flight. Your plane is almost finished. Does the order of validations and MAC with clear text matter? In other words classic tripod. Adding more engines without adding intakes will make the problem worse. Then go into the move part thing with the "2" key in the editor, remove the degree setting, and then drag them apart manually and position parts with fine tuning that way. If you believe your item has been removed by mistake, please contact, This item is incompatible with Kerbal Space Program. Also, I would like to know how I can tweak my aircraft to make them smooth at the controls. If it is, you'll never get the nose off the runway. Next you need landing gear. So the ones that go straight up and down can only be straight up and down, no angling left, right, backwards or forwards such as when you place the little wheel on the angled body of the cockpit part. Right click on the control surfaces and knock down the control authority of each item. Even exponential growth can take a while to get going if it starts out microscopic, and Id be fascinated to find someone who could figure out a way of measuring the growth rate. Reaction wheels will balance smaller craft just fine, but are probably insufficient for bigger ones. Some general pointers to make more stable aircraft, one is to set your COL just behind your COM, another is that your centre of drag should be as far back as possible - there's no way to visually show this as far as I know but a light but aerodynamically bulky rear to an aircraft generally makes it more stable. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Smaller wings on the cockpit can be good. I've covered all my bases, as far as I can tell: It seems if I turn off SAS, I can prevent the oscillation from starting as it's initiated by some control input, whether from me or SAS, but then the plane veers off the runway until it hits something. It can be as crazy or as normal as you want, just remember these basic tips, 1. You want to keep the CoL slightly behind the CoM, but not too much to not create torque. Whether VTOL craft arepracticalor efficientcompared to other solutions is a different matter -- and to be perfectly honest, I'm inclined to think not really. You may need to add several on bigger craft. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Also, layout matters: aircraft with a wing that runs along the length of the craft, but with a narrow wingspan (like the Mk2 fuselages or wing strakes, and to a lesser extend swept or delta wings) will take more effort to pitch over but will roll very, very easily. In addition to the tips others have suggested, try locking steering on all your wheels. and our Then this tutorial is for you. If the fuel flows from the. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. The solution is to house the hoverjets in a cargo bay of some kind, with the doors opening downwards. It only takes a minute to sign up. Is there such a thing as "right to be heard" by the authorities? Please see the. a craft that's designed to fly aerodynamically, using lift produced by lifting surfaces. So thanks for the pointers - I'll take a look (and try to cure my prejudice re canards). Plane veering off course is not uncommon but uneven fuel draw can exacerbate it a lot. CoL (Blue ball) position relative to CoM (Yellow ball) is very important. Your link has been automatically embedded. Powered by Invision Community. Powered by Invision Community. Put the big wings right at the back of the plane. For more information, please see our Usually, having one or two medium-sized intakes will more than suffice on a regular plane. This is my current best hi alt plane. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. To start off with, use ANY cockpit you want, this tutorial is going to teach you how to make anything using anything, as long as you follow these directions. You cannot paste images directly. 5. Try not to make your first airplanes longer than 3 MK1 fuselages. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. The hoverjets are housed in the big wing-mounted pods. And you would need to stay hours spectating the ship, because the game doesn't simulate atmospheric drag otherwise. Could a subterranean river or aquifer generate enough continuous momentum to power a waterwheel for the purpose of producing electricity? For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. The BAK Cyclone hard at work on Duna. do you put them vertically or are they at an angle to the ground? Ok, you will want to start building. Except for the parts regarding drag and number of intakes, everything else is still very valid. Body deformation can be caused by heavy parts, many parts connected together, or forces on the plane. Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. Interesting design!! They'll still happen but you'll have more time to get off the ground. By The cargo is near the centre of mass, but because it can shift, it's important to adjust the exact balance by tuning the power on the nose hoverjet At its core, a VTOL aircraft is a plain old aircraft, with downward-pointing jets that produce a TWR of > 1.0 with the vector centred on the craft's centre of mass, and some way of controlling its attitude when it is hovering, because control surfaces do nothing at an airspeed of zero. I was a diehard rocketer (5k hours or so) until a month ago and then suddenly got the spaceplane bug, I can now see why some people (*cough*Val*cough*) come out with dozens of designs: it's neat when it works so well. Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. Do you by chance know how much the thrust varies with these small velocity perturbations? That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. If you have a perturbation that gives your left engine a tiny bit more thrust, you will turn slightly right. and our By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. You've landed. rev2023.5.1.43405. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. It is entirely powered by Terriers. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. Better still, three screenshots showing side, top, and rear views. As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. At this point you'll probably need to go back to the plane design you started with, because air intakes are dry mass and will shift the CoM as you add them. How do I build a good stable basic plane? Start with simplest, easiest planes you can and then increase complexity observing and mitigating problems as they arise. This thread is quite old. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. But be careful and don't crash it! @italian man Great guide, and for people who would like to know the basics of plane building i will be pointing them here. Your previous content has been restored. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. This guide also applies to STOL (Short Take-Off and Landing) aircraft which do their thing using downward-pointing jets or rockets, because they're pretty much the same thing. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. Switch on the CoM and CoT overlays. You can horse hundreds of tonnes, up and down both, with the standard canard pieces.
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